Session 65.5 Wager Epilogue 2
(10:07:26 PM) Shadell: Sure. (10:10:33 PM) Lian: JG? (10:18:43 PM) Lian: Jg? (10:18:53 PM) Myrah: sorry I need 5 minutes (10:21:50 PM) abirkin2: braaaains (10:39:46 PM) Lian: echo (10:40:21 PM) abirkin2: echo (10:40:30 PM) abirkin2: myrah? (10:40:31 PM) Myrah: ok I'm live (10:42:03 PM) Lian: Shadell? (10:50:54 PM) Shadell: K. (10:51:35 PM) abirkin2: GRAAAAR (10:51:45 PM) Myrah: GWAR! (10:51:51 PM) Lian: TALK! (10:52:18 PM) Myrah: "At least we don't sparkle." (10:53:35 PM) Shadell: Heh. (10:53:39 PM) Shadell is now known as NIet (10:53:44 PM) NIet is now known as Niet (10:54:14 PM) abirkin2 is now known as Priceless_Emerald (10:58:57 PM) Niet: So? (10:59:13 PM) Lian: presumably Niet looks for Danzi (10:59:24 PM) ***Niet does taht. (10:59:51 PM) Myrah is now known as Danizelle (11:02:30 PM) ***Danizelle can be found near the water, where she usually is, still in her human form, poking at some designs, some borrowed from various sources, cross-referencing them for something else. (11:03:43 PM) Niet: Niet approaches quietly and watches Danizelle work. (11:05:25 PM) ***Danizelle seems absolutely engrossed, very carefully measuring out intricate designs on the sheets she's working on, doing something that at least niet can relate to. (11:10:01 PM) ***Niet continues to watch. Occasionally she takes notes. Presumably, some time passes this way? (11:15:52 PM) Lian: (speak up niet!) (11:20:41 PM) ***Danizelle finishes some basic notations and sets aside her writing implements and looks up. "how are you feeling?" (11:21:37 PM) Niet: "Why are you angry at me?" (11:22:21 PM) Danizelle: "Angry isn't the word. Frustrated, tired, and a bit worried are the words." (11:24:39 PM) ***Danizelle indicates a spot in front of her as she carefully sets aside the mass of plans. "Have a seat Niet, I'd like to have a conversation that doesn't end with imprecations, accusations and screaming. (11:27:57 PM) ***Niet sits down. (11:31:54 PM) Danizelle: "What are your thoughts right now? (11:34:00 PM) Niet: "I don't understand why you get so frustrated." (11:34:10 PM) Niet: "So explain it." (11:34:40 PM) Danizelle: "you felt it though?" (11:36:13 PM) Priceless_Emerald left the room (quit: Exit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client). (11:36:45 PM) Danizelle: "I get frustrated because I neither understand you and what's running through your head, and I don't know how to meet you halfway where I can and am often more than willing." (11:42:07 PM) abirkin2 Mibbit@dm-25619.cinci.res.rr.com entered the room. (11:42:50 PM) Danizelle: ((What's Niet's appearance at the moment?" (11:44:58 PM) Niet: (Hmm, lets go with the childish looking wtich.) (11:45:33 PM) abirkin2 is now known as Priceless_Emerald (11:45:38 PM) Priceless_Emerald: (net hiccup) (11:49:42 PM) ***Danizelle waits patiently for an answer. (11:51:59 PM) Niet: "But everything I do is consistent with principles I've told you before." (11:53:18 PM) Danizelle: "I've only heard part of the tale there niet. i don't have the whole picture, so what I have to run with seems a hodgepodge of principles tailored to suit the mind of a precocious, highly intelligent and stubborn child." (11:54:51 PM) Danizelle: Now this may not be true, but it's the pieces I have that I have to work with (11:57:35 PM) Niet: "Everything I do is consistent." (11:57:39 PM) Niet: "You know what my goal is." (11:57:44 PM) Niet: "My singular goal." (11:57:47 PM) Niet: "I act to reach it." (11:58:05 PM) Niet: "You're the one I don't understand. You change your goals every ten seconds. Why?" (11:58:38 PM) Danizelle: "My goal has never changed. However, the means i go about it does, depending on what I have available." (1/7/2011 12:01:43 AM) Niet: "And what is that?" (12:03:09 AM) Lian: (Honestly I don't thinK Danzi understands Niet's goal, I don't think JG understands Niets goal) (12:03:51 AM) Danizelle: "I intend to become that which adapts and changes herself to overcome obstacles, I intend to embrace change and evolution and bypass the need for the Yozis, the Unconquered sun, or any of those pedantic bastards who think they know what is best for me, or creation." (12:07:14 AM) Niet: "But that's not a consistent system." (12:07:31 AM) Niet: "Either you don't act on anything, or you don't apply that principle across the board." (12:08:09 AM) Danizelle: "Systems don't have to be consistent and regulated. Look around you. The jungles here aren't regulated. That doesn't stop them from working." (12:16:42 AM) Danizelle: "In a lot of ways the ability to adapt oneself to overcome situations allows greater freedom to pursue one's own goals. However, this project is actually to help so I'm not having to rely purely on fast-talk so much." (12:17:15 AM) Niet: "... So, why should you have freedom and not others?" (12:17:38 AM) Danizelle: "Explain this please." (12:18:54 AM) Niet: "You want to be free from authority, but you project authority on others." (12:19:52 AM) Danizelle: "Freedom from authority and freedom from being forced into a little box where you act as the little puppet are two different things. Everyone has something they respect. hell, even I do." (12:24:54 AM) Niet: "And if people don't want to respect you?" (12:24:59 AM) Niet: "Or they want to move against you?" (12:25:33 AM) Danizelle: "If they don't want to respect me? i care not. if they move against me, they'd best be prepared for failure and the fallout." (12:27:06 AM) Danizelle: "Most people don't even really know what respect means (12:36:13 AM) Danizelle: "but what else is on your mind? I'd like to know what your thoughts were after Emerald's little experiment. Quite bluntly i'm amazed you're willing to talk to me after that one." (12:36:47 AM) Niet: "You don't make sense." (12:37:25 AM) Danizelle: I do from the right perspective. But by and large humans, exalted or not, don't make sense." (12:40:31 AM) Danizelle: "but i'll admit, what you did to me has brought me no closer to understanding you than i was. You are an optimist, but that doesn't really tell me much about you that I didn't already know." (12:40:50 AM) Niet: "I don't compromise." (12:42:05 AM) Danizelle: "And that, my dear is where we come to loggerheads. Every single time. Because i won't be backed into a corner or forced into someone else's agenda without my agreement,especially when i only dimly understand that agenda." (12:49:26 AM) Niet: "I don't make ideological compromises." (12:49:48 AM) Niet: "I can restrain from immediate action." (12:49:49 AM) Danizelle: "Why not?" (12:51:48 AM) Niet: "An ideology you compromise on isn't a principle at all." (12:51:55 AM) Niet: "If you believe in something you won't betray it." (12:55:20 AM) Danizelle: "belief and fact aren't one and the same niet. You make no allowances for the idea that you could be incorrect, or that there might be a better path, or way." (12:57:02 AM) Niet: "And you do?" (12:57:23 AM) Niet: "Every time I try to discuss things with you, work things out, you start yelling at me and then go do what you want." (12:58:13 AM) Danizelle: Because i feel like i'm talking to a wall. I try to do or say something and i get "no" from your corner. I'm quite bluntly tired of asking. (1:00:14 AM) Niet: "When did you ever ask?" (1:00:53 AM) Danizelle: A couple times, but then I also don't appreciate it when I get contradicted in the middle of a discussion with someone." (1:02:37 AM) Niet: "But you do that to me whenever you feel like it." (1:04:03 AM) Danizelle: when you decide to interject and try to sucker someone into accepting your shaping tricks when i'm in the middle of it. Niet i get angry when you interfere because the end-result of your interference usually leaves me with the desire to eviscerate the poor bastard and start over with someone else." (1:04:29 AM) Niet: "..." (1:04:50 AM) Niet: "How are my actions any different from yours?" (1:07:24 AM) Danizelle: Depends on the situation Niet. You seem to feel a rather heavy-handed need to guide and control any situation, without asking, or sharing the details of your brilliant plans. If you tell me you want the coin purse of the dynast in the corner, don't bother to lay out how you feel it should be done, and get me rolling, you don't get to complain that i'm not following the plan." (1:07:47 AM) Danizelle: "And rather bluntly, I'm not your subordinate." (1:09:39 AM) Niet: "Wait.... Are you complaining that I tell you too much, or that I don't tell you enough?" (1:10:15 AM) Danizelle: You don't tell me what it is you're expecting to happen. You don't tell enough. (1:10:45 AM) Niet: "But, you just told me you don't want me to lay out how to do things...." (1:11:01 AM) Niet: "So do you want me to plan or not, since you just said both are bad?" (1:11:07 AM) Danizelle: "HOWEVER... I'm also telling you, you do not get to make plans and expect my automatic compliance. you are not the legion commander, and I'm not your loyal tagalong. We're equals, or we can fight for a pecking order. your choice." (1:13:37 AM) Niet: "So.... to clarify." (1:16:12 AM) Niet: "You want me to share more information, but you don't want to discuss things with me, don't want me to run counter to what you decide to do without talking to me or sharing, don't want me to interfere with the plans you make and avoid sharing because you think I'd argue with you over them, and don't want me to share too much information?" (1:17:01 AM) Niet: "This is what I meant when I said you don't make sense." (1:17:12 AM) Niet: "If you want us to be equals, why are you telling me to put you in charge?" (1:19:06 AM) Danizelle: "i'm not. Niet, I'm telling you that your plans foul me up as much as i foul up your plans. If you want me to cooperate, ya best ask for my input in setting them up, and tell me if you have a reasonable plan BEFORE you tell me you need me to do something so we can hash it out. I'm all about adapting, but i'm not going to become a mind-reader to make sure i'm not tripping over you." (1:20:59 AM) Niet: "But why are you blaming me when that's just as much your fault?" (1:21:50 AM) Danizelle: "Right now? i'm not. I'm trying to discuss how to fix the problem." (1:22:19 AM) Niet: "Then I'll learn to read minds. It's not that hard." (1:23:30 AM) Danizelle: "You don't like it when i abruptly improvise. To a point, that'll never change, mostly because the tricks we have access to don't hold a candle to the Zenith for swaying hearts and minds. However... you can cut down on a lot of that if you talk to me before you finalize your perfect schemes." (1:24:04 AM) Danizelle: "Just make allowances for the fact that sometimes you have to go off the ranch to attack a issue from another angle (1:25:04 AM) Niet: "But.... every time I do that you move directly against me." (1:27:46 AM) Danizelle: "Niet i can promise someone your soul demand their payment in front and slaughter them before they can collect under a sanctified oath without consequence. What makes you think I'm always looking for a way to directly oppose you? Now it's spitreful and childish but the more you try to control my actions the more i will rebel and screw things up. It's the nature of the beast. You'll get that way sooner or later too." (1:29:11 AM) Niet: "No..." (1:29:21 AM) Niet: "I try roundabout tactics and you actively denounce me half the time." (1:29:49 AM) Danizelle: "Niet you're as subtle as a Grand goremaul." (1:30:26 AM) Danizelle: "you're smarter than I am, but dammit when you and Emerald try to be clever in a negotiation it makes it harder for me." (1:32:40 AM) Danizelle: "And rather like you saw with Mnemon, I have to undo your handiwork to have a functional conversation once it's done. Although rather like mnemon, I can parley that into having more tools in our pockets and give literally nothing in exchange, but I'd like to coordinate with you rather than run roughshod over you, understand?" (1:33:23 AM) Danizelle: "believe it or not, i don't get my jollies off trying to make the defiler cry. (1:35:36 AM) Niet: "So... you have to undo my handiwork to work...." (1:35:41 AM) Niet: "Deliberately." (1:35:46 AM) Niet: "WIthout discussing things first." (1:36:00 AM) Niet: "Yet get mad when I disagree with you?" (1:37:48 AM) Niet: "You're not even thinking of all the times you insult me and what I'm doing in the middle of a debate." (1:38:12 AM) Niet: "Or talk to the enemy about how you think my tactics are silly. You actively undermine me." (1:40:41 AM) Danizelle: "Niet, I want them to think you're not a threat. period. of the four of us you're the most visually innocuous, and generally the most deadly to their intentions if they push wrong. Ideally they're watching me, they're watching Ceylin and not paying you any heed so you can ferret more out of them than you could directly." (1:42:07 AM) Danizelle: "And frankly to most normal people in creation, you come off as adorable and batty enough to be dismissed as a threat. which suits me fine because you're not a fighter." (1:42:18 AM) Niet: "I was working on a strategy with Walker." (1:42:41 AM) Danizelle: I wasn't privy to the strategy with Walker, remember?" (1:42:42 AM) Niet: "You interrupted and outright contradicted me on more than one occassion." (1:42:47 AM) Niet: "You were." (1:43:02 AM) Niet: "But this was an aside." (1:43:37 AM) Niet: "I saw an opportunity and improvised. And you immediately sabotoged me, right after abandoning the plan we spent hours working out after two seconds of conversation." (1:43:53 AM) Danizelle: the point isn't to hash out every little thing you or i have done wwrong to each other niet. the point is to get to where we're not trying to stomp over each other (1:44:56 AM) Danizelle: "We can spend several hours with recriminations and every little slight or time each of us has pissed the other off or we can work to fix the problem." (1:46:48 AM) Niet: "My point is that when you do it to me, you call it justified or necessary, strong improvisation, or thinking on your feet, yet hate it when I do it to you." (1:47:08 AM) Danizelle: "Now as i said, one of the problems I have is i don't have the tricks Desus or the heirophant could bring to bear in negotiations, I'm working ona couple workarounds so i don't have to jump around and shift gears as much on you." (1:47:31 AM) Niet: "If you want it fixed you need to accept your inconsistency." (1:48:00 AM) Danizelle: "You don't hear me arguing that I'm inconsistent do you?" (1:48:25 AM) Danizelle: "I know I am. I'm working on it." (1:49:15 AM) Danizelle: "Bluntly i'm getting tired of only having fast talk in my bag of tricks, it only goes so far against someone who's decided they don;t want to cooperate." (1:52:55 AM) Danizelle: "Are you tracking so far?" (1:56:11 AM) Danizelle: "Right now I want to hash out what we can do to set thigs up so i don't have to bounce off-target so much, thusly taking some stress off your mind." (1:56:26 AM) Danizelle: "We'll has out some things for your end after." (1:57:02 AM) Danizelle: So we work on some things I can do to make things less insane first. then we move to you." (2:01:57 AM) Niet: "Sure." (2:02:40 AM) Danizelle: "One, you're right about negotiation consistency, you want to know where part of that problem comes from? (2:04:26 AM) Danizelle: there's two... no, three, one part's I'm always looking for an angle that give a better vantage. this has advantages and drawbacks. two, i've been raised on negotiationa s compromise, it's just a matter of figuring out what you're willing to give up, but the painful one is i have no way to really push my intent the way a solar could, or Ceylin can when she's screaming." (2:04:35 AM) Danizelle: "Making sense thus far?" (2:06:43 AM) Niet: "I don't disagree with changing things to fit incorrect or not previously present data, though the data should never be incorrect in principle. My disagreement lies primarily in the unilateral way you advance those revisions." (2:06:51 AM) Niet: "It's not cute." (2:07:32 AM) Danizelle: "need a method for private sharing of information on the fly, Niet. only way to get around that." (2:07:45 AM) Danizelle: "One that can't be tapped." (2:13:09 AM) Niet: "I already said I'd do that." (2:13:21 AM) Danizelle: "What you got in mind? (2:13:32 AM) Niet: "But, we've had situations where there was time to talk. You hit me instead." (2:13:51 AM) Niet: "Or tried to get Ceycey to drag me away." (2:15:21 AM) Danizelle: "I'm sorry I hit you, but that mirror was a test you failed. It's a lock, and you tried the wrong key. if we screw all the locks, Autocthon dies. We'll come back to that later." (2:20:29 AM) Danizelle: "Now, solutions for going off the ranch in negotiations? I've been looking at the powers the yozis offer, and have found them somewhat... lacking and mostly comparatively weak when held against celestial exalts. Unless we count the tricks you picked up from the dragon that you love so much. But in most cases they're clunky to use and comparatively easy to resist." (2:21:06 AM) Niet: "See, that's my point." (2:21:26 AM) Danizelle: "mmm?" (2:21:39 AM) Niet: "When you think you're right, you have no trouble acting outside any system, yet you expect others who think they're right and you're wrong to act within the system rather than take direct action." (2:22:16 AM) Niet: "And move them toward simpler ones if you can't handle being anything other than completely direct." (2:22:27 AM) Danizelle: "I think we're miscommunicating again." (2:27:49 AM) Danizelle: "And I think we can continue this conversation another time." (2:29:17 AM) Priceless_Emerald left the room (quit: Exit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client). (2:30:55 AM) ***Danizelle stands up, wads up the sheets of designs, tosses them into the water, and starts walking back to Denandsor. (2:37:44 AM) Danizelle: ((time to call it a night folks. I'm sleepy)) (2:38:36 AM) Niet: ((Same. Night.)) ---- Back Category:Exalted: The Green Knights